ID4Africa Abidjan: Transcript

Note: This is an auto-generated transcript.

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AV Team: Welcome, everyone. Nice to have you. We don't have a fantastic amount of seats, which is great. So it means that the topic is of so much interest.

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AV Team: Ааа?

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AV Team: А. Мильятти?

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AV Team: Окей?

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AV Team: Ельфодій?

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AV Team: Сіль?

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AV Team: Келькен, Дотхе Келькен, Франкофон?

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AV Team: De l'anglais en français.

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AV Team: Levez la main.

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AV Team: Oui, ok, ok.

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AV Team: Et qui n'a pas d'équipement qui n'a pas d'équipement, vous pouvez lever la main qui n'a pas d'équipement. Ok.

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AV Team: Par ici.

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AV Team: A.

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AV Team: Anglais Ce bon.

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AV Team: Ok So Albec.

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AV Team: We work with you and other donors to fund the systems with large capital investments. But then the question is, basically, once we have the capital to build the ID systems, how do we sustain them?

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AV Team: If there's no sustainability of ID systems, uh, these systems with this huge…

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AV Team: Super fancy, super modern systems very fast because equipment will become obsolete. There needs to be funds for various operating and maintenance costs.

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AV Team: And quite often we rush a lot with these capital investments to build those systems, but we don't really think much about how to sustain those systems. And these systems are expensive to set up and also expensive to maintain. So the question is, what is it that we need to do?

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AV Team: To make this investment sustainable, to continue upgrading those systems, technology changes fast, requirements change, society changes. This is the topic of discussion today, a collective wisdom from all of you.

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AV Team: Директор в Діду?

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AV Team: Будь-ю стендап окей?

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AV Team: Аааар?

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AV Team: Але Організайш?

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AV Team: I would also like to thank our partners, Smart Africa and ECOWAS for helping us together organize this session. And as I said, it's just the beginning of the discussion that I hope we will all continue conducting together. So Stella, would you?

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AV Team: Do a few opening remarks.

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AV Team: Good morning, colleagues and partners, and thank you so much for joining us today. This room probably could have been larger to accommodate everyone who is interested in this topic, but this is a great sign that this is a very timely conversation.

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AV Team: And we are very happy that we have with us our clients and our partners, and we can, uh, learn from, uh, other countries that looked into this, uh, priority, into this, uh, problem, challenge, and, uh, leverage all the knowledge and the expertise that we have.

01:16:48.000 --> 01:17:03.000
AV Team: in our countries to come up with an approach that can help us enhance the sustainability of our, not just the ID systems, ID ecosystems, but in general, the digital public infrastructure.

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AV Team: We spoke yesterday about how important ID ecosystem is for a country, for a digital state, for bringing everybody into the digital services, making sure that the services are inclusive, secure.

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AV Team: The government can operate securely, and of course, countries can collaborate among themselves and trade and create more opportunities. From the bank side, we are very committed to having this conversation and dialogue.

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AV Team: And we will support the efforts moving forward to make sure that this has a solution that is applicable and relevant to each of the countries that wants to embark on this journey.

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AV Team: Thank you to Daria, thank you to our ECOWAS partners, Smart Africa, to our clients and our partners, and very much looking forward to the discussion. Thank you.

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AV Team: Thank you, Stella.

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AV Team: Maybe I will try to use this guy if you can unmute it.

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AV Team: 1, 2, 1, 2 testing. Okay, that works.

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AV Team: All right. Good morning, everyone. Bonjour a tous.

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AV Team: Beaucoup d'entre vous en la habitude de montenne parler en francais, j'ai parler en anglais aujourd'hui, don.

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AV Team: I just said that many of these, you know, people here hear me speak French mostly, but I will speak English today. So, you know, as Daria and Stella said, you know, one of the main issues that we're facing when looking at ID systems is really about the financial sustainability. Why? Because building it is just the first step.

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AV Team: then, if we really want to keep the value, the impact, the momentum going, we really need to sustain it. And you know, as the World Bank, you know, we're, I believe, quite a decent partner when it comes to getting things started. But we realize that we could really be better and really learning and building this community around. You know, how do we make this much more sustainable in the long term?

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AV Team: So I will be presenting a couple of slides that we're going to go through together. We're going to introduce also what the bank has managed to collect from all of our collective experiences, and also introduce a little bit of a framework and a tool that we can collectively discuss.

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AV Team: And then we will have, indeed, two very important examples that are going to be presented.

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AV Team: So maybe the first question is why financial viability matters. And this might sound like a little bit of a trite point, right? Like, of course, financial viability matters because otherwise nothing works. But it's actually much more than just the continuity of ID services.

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AV Team: One of the important points is that, you know, we live in a much more fiscally constrained space these days as we used to a couple of years back. And so we really need to make sure that every you know, every dollar, every you know, whatever currency that is spent is really making the most impact. And this is really important, especially for us.

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AV Team: And especially because we, you know, what we saw yesterday is we're not anymore about the systems, we're about the ecosystem. So there's so many different things that we need to finance beyond, you know, the initial, you know, foundational system like an ID system.

01:20:54.000 --> 01:21:07.000
AV Team: to make the system run financially, then how can you reinvest? And the last point that I would like to make, but this is far from being the least, is it's also really an important question of inclusion and of fundamental rights.

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AV Team: Because when you don't have enough budget for all of your population who is left out, it's typically those who need it the most.

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AV Team: So this is really a duty when you think about financial sustainability to protect the most vulnerable.

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AV Team: So there's a couple of challenges that every country faces on the path of sustainability. And you know, typically, these are the questions that we we hear a lot from our partners is, how do we move from donor funded or government funded to self-sustaining.

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AV Team: So when the World Bank pulls out because the project ends, or you know, for whatever reason, there's a there's a.

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AV Team: There's a constraint in terms of the public funding. How do we get to actually continue managing the operation?

01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:59.000
AV Team: Another big question that we get is, okay, financial sustainability, that means revenue. And revenue means someone has to pay. And so who pays? How much? And through what mechanism?

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AV Team: Really one of the.

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AV Team: questions. Then how do we continue delivering ideas of public service without forcing citizens to pay? So this is a bit of a subset of the second question is, how do we remain inclusive while, you know, generating revenue? And then the fourth one, again, is really, how do we protect public values while recovering costs?

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AV Team: how do we make sure that, you know, there are not some commercial interests that come on top of the public interest, or at least how do we align that, right? So these are the questions that we're going to be looking into today.

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AV Team: And these are a few insights just of some data collection that was performed a couple of years back. And this comes from a sample of different countries across the world. So different regions where we gathered, you know, with your help.

01:22:45.000 --> 01:23:00.000
AV Team: how much you know was spent for each of the cost drivers. So the cost items for id systems. And there are 2 interesting things that we can see here. The 1st one is, you realize the human resources part is obviously a very big one.

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AV Team: And then the second one is ID credential production. The rest, so what we typically speak about, you know, we speak a lot about whatever the IT systems, and you know, should it be public, sorry, should it be proprietary, should it be open source, but we realize that actually.

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AV Team: These do not represent a major part in terms of, you know, the operation of the of this.

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AV Team: The physical establishment are extremely important, but once that they're set up, they also do not represent a major cost.

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AV Team: The point that I would like to make, because when you look at this, you're like, oh, OK, if we want to save money, we should save it on human resources, right? But when you look at the spreads of both human resources and ID credential production, actually, you get to a very interesting insight.

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AV Team: is that those countries who spend the most on the id credential production. So those at the right of this are the ones who can spend the least on the human resources. But we know that this is the part that is going to be very important to get people to enroll correctly and and everything. So human resources. These are the jobs. These are the people. And so we need to maximize this as much as we can.

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AV Team: Inklusion.

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AV Team: So the government pays, there are some revenue models, but in any case, in the end, the government pays the bill. Then there is a more service fees-based model. So you just define how much are you going to charge for any type of service. And that could be a transaction.

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AV Team: online, so when you do an authentication transaction, a verification transaction, but also when you're going to get your credentials, so your first ID card, or your passport, or your resident card.

01:25:15.000 --> 01:25:31.000
AV Team: Then there is a model that is interesting also that looks at not only the revenue generation from national side, but also diverse. Sorry on that Id side, but also diversification in terms of the different services that can be provided. So you know, can the Id agency also.

01:25:31.000 --> 01:25:47.000
AV Team: provide other services like it services to other agencies within the country, but also abroad. Right? So this is a little bit of the a bit of an export model, right? And here Pakistan is one case, and then we will also hear from Ethiopia, who is looking to do the same approach.

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AV Team: We have the Ppp. One, and we can spend, you know, a full. Day just speaking about Ppps, because there's so many different ones. But typically this is when you rely on, you know, private actor to take part of the risk. But then you also.

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AV Team: provide them the opportunity to generate revenue. And so when we speak about risk, we speak about operational risk, but also about revenue risk. And this comes with some, you know, interesting questions that that go around it. But just to acknowledge that this is.

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AV Team: Of course, you know, an important one that many countries are looking to. And then the final one is a little bit of a flavor of the second one, which is really cost recovery based model. And this is the example of Peru, where what they did is every year they look at this is how much we're going to charge for each type of service.

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AV Team: But this is only made to recover the cost. Only. So if the next year there was a surplus, they will adapt the fee in order to, quote-unquote, give back some of the money. It's not a direct give-back, but, you know, you make it cheaper. And so this is really about improvement.

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AV Team: All of these, again, have pros and cons, right? So when we look at the public funding case, inclusion is really important. Equity, universal reach is huge. And when you look at a country like the size of India, it becomes very…

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AV Team: clear that how important it is to really reach even the last 5%, because it's literally tens of millions of people. But the cons, of course, is fiscal dependence. Not every country is like India and can afford this, and also the political vulnerability. So if tomorrow this doesn't.

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AV Team: It's not a priority anymore for the country. Then what do we do?

01:27:26.000 --> 01:27:36.000
AV Team: The fee-based cost recovery, so, like, in Peru, it's a very good balance of inclusion and sustainability, because there is revenue that is coming in, but at the same time, it's very fair.

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AV Team: The con, of course, is that you know, when you start building the system, and when you start making the verification piece happen, you know, there's a ramp up period where you're still vulnerable, because if you divide.

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AV Team: the cost by the amount of transactions at the beginning, because you don't have many transactions, then the cost is going to be very high. So you still need to manage this part.

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AV Team: And then the diversification revenue generating, again, we will see it in more detail. But this is a really good model in terms of the independence of the operation. But we should also realize that not all countries can have the potential to export this capacity. And so you will typically also have tension between the commercial and public interest.

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AV Team: And this will be exemplified very well later on by Tarek.

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AV Team: So this was just a little bit of an introduction. What we would like really now to to do a little bit collectively is to suggest. And this is something that we've already started, you know, discussing with a couple of countries and and putting together some insight to really build a framework.

01:28:38.000 --> 01:28:53.000
AV Team: to help every country who is on the path to financial sustainability to make that happen, right? So, three different steps to that would be information collection, really understanding what is the status quo, so a little bit of a diagnostic.

01:28:53.000 --> 01:29:03.000
AV Team: um, you know, what is today's country's costs? What are the potential revenue streams? What are the institutional arrangements that could make that happen, right?

01:29:03.000 --> 01:29:20.000
AV Team: The second one would be an assessment and scoring. So really to say, Hey, this is where I'm situated on the basis of these different metrics. And this is really not to give a, you know, to give a specific grade, and we'll speak about it, but really more to establish kind of a.

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AV Team: policy dialogue, right? Saying, okay, this is where we can really improve. And this is where we can. We can get better.

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AV Team: And then the final part, of course, is the meat of this framework would be the financial simulations across different reform scenarios. So what if we were doing this model? What if we were doing this? What if we were doing that? And then at the end of this work, leveraging this framework really to get something that is akin to a phased roadmap.

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AV Team: Um, you know, that, that you can, like, a country can really leverage and bring it to the national, uh, level, and, and really develop the path to sustainability.

01:29:59.000 --> 01:30:14.000
AV Team: So this is a proposition. This is something that we're we're thinking of. We've already starting collecting some some information, and we would be very keen to have, you know, some feedback from you at the end of the session, and your you know your participation to this effort.

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AV Team: One point that I really need to make, because often —.

01:30:23.000 --> 01:30:39.000
AV Team: when we hear about financial sustainability. And I think you know, people in this room are very acutely aware that you know, sustainability is not just about revenue. But this is not the case for everyone. And so what we propose also to assess during, and you know, to think about during.

01:30:39.000 --> 01:31:00.000
AV Team: during this exercise would be not only the cost structure, but also the revenue architecture, the enabling conditions. So, for example, does the Id authority have the institutional capacity to retain the revenue, then the operational readiness. And finally, the demand trajectory. So how to generate demand. And we make sure that you know there is enough.

01:31:00.000 --> 01:31:07.000
AV Team: demand. There is enough value and enough. Yeah, requests for for these types of transactions.

01:31:09.000 --> 01:31:19.000
AV Team: And again, so the idea is really to go from a baseline, so leveraging something that we could call a rapid financial sustainability index, RFSI.

01:31:19.000 --> 01:31:40.000
AV Team: Sounds okay. If someone has a better idea for an acronym, please share with us. But to really look into again, this is not a score. It's not a grade. It's really a starting point. And then again, co-creating an effective path to sustainability. So this is really not, you know. Of course I'm World Bank and presenting, but it's not World Bank saying, Hey, this is how you should do it.

01:31:40.000 --> 01:31:57.000
AV Team: This is really what every country should be looking into in order to make the sustainability happen, and this is what the countries who've succeeded have gone through. So diagnose, prioritize, sequence, and then this is where the World Bank, but also other partners can come in, is really then supporting.

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AV Team: I've been insisting on this, but I think this is really a message that we want to really insist on, is that in the end, sustainability, and especially when you talk about revenue, we should really avoid the trap of making it come at the cost of inclusion.

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AV Team: So there are some principles. Most of you know the ID4D principles. If you don't know them, just type id4dprinciples.com, I think, is the address, or type it on Google, and you will see a bunch of different principles that were agreed between many countries, many multilateral organizations.

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AV Team: UNICEF, World Bank, African Development Bank, I think around 50 organizations. And you will see that one of the principles is really in terms of inclusion is to try to make sure that we shouldn't prevent access to the people who need it the most.

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AV Team: So credential insurance.

01:32:52.000 --> 01:33:09.000
AV Team: should preferably always be free, then really means test. So you know, when you allocate a fee to a service, really make sure that it's not only fit for purpose, but also that it's, you know, not making a service that is really important, that it's making it more challenging to obtain.

01:33:09.000 --> 01:33:14.000
AV Team: So this really goes to the second point. So don't prevent access to the service.

01:33:14.000 --> 01:33:30.000
AV Team: Another point, and many countries have been doing that, and it's very good to see, is that some of the services like social protection, health, education, ideally should be free because they're really so critical. And finally, and this is a very important point, yesterday you've heard a lot about cybersecurity.

01:33:41.000 --> 01:33:56.000
AV Team: deals with data, make sure that you know you are protecting this data, and you're not entering in a mode where you know someone might be leveraging this data to actually, you know, just monetize it. So we all have the Cambridge analytic scandal in in our mind.

01:33:56.000 --> 01:34:05.000
AV Team: So I don't think anyone wants to be in that situation. But just to also highlight that this is going to be, you know, an important point that needs to be borne in mind.

01:34:07.000 --> 01:34:32.000
AV Team: So without further ado, I think it's time for our two next panelists to present a few of the case studies. And they're very interesting examples of what we've seen around the world. Keep in mind that these are examples that fit into one of the models that we've seen before. There are others, and we're going to be publishing some of the case studies, and we'll be very happy to share them with all of you.

01:34:32.000 --> 01:34:48.000
AV Team: but still very important lessons learned. So we will have Pakistan first, st so represented by the former chairman of Nadra Tariq Malik, and then we will also have the example of Ethiopia represented by Samina safe. So.

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AV Team: Without further ado, the floor is yours.

01:35:01.000 --> 01:35:04.000
AV Team: Thank you, Alex.

01:35:06.000 --> 01:35:18.000
AV Team: I'm pleased to be standing in front of you and now explaining Nadra's model, which I was part of the team which actually architected.

01:35:18.000 --> 01:35:35.000
AV Team: But here is a story that I want to a short story that when I joined Nadra in 2,008, the registration was 45%, and it was voluntarily registration. We had only 2 months of salary.

01:35:35.000 --> 01:35:53.000
AV Team: left in the in the budget. Nadra was created in 2,000, but Pakistan was issuing Id cards since 1973. So there were 2 organizations, National Registration Authority.

01:35:53.000 --> 01:36:06.000
AV Team: And National Computer Organization. So they were merged and, oh, sorry, National Database Organization. So they were merged to create NATRA.

01:36:07.000 --> 01:36:22.000
AV Team: So, um, and Pakistan economy was not doing well. So, uh, when the program started, uh, government of Pakistan took loan from the banks, uh, from Pakistani National Bank.

01:36:22.000 --> 01:36:37.000
AV Team: and they kickstart the project. And here, after 8 years, when I joined, you know, there was just like 2 months of salary that was left. And so the Prime Minister called me, and he said, we will give you 600 million.

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AV Team: for to continue the program. And I said, I don't want it. But I want a strategic partnership with the Government, because Nadra is an independent authority, an autonomous authority.

01:36:54.000 --> 01:37:09.000
AV Team: So let's become a development partner. Right? So the Prime Minister was happy. But my minister was not happy because he said, Do you have a plan? And I said, I don't have a plan. I only have a conviction. Let's work on the plan.

01:37:09.000 --> 01:37:22.000
AV Team: So the plan was to bifurcate two organizations, create a commercial organization, which is called Nadra Technologies Limited.

01:37:23.000 --> 01:37:39.000
AV Team: and registered it in Pakistan's Security and Exchange Commission. And one day we thought that it would be a public entity company, but we started that. And the strategic partnership that I wanted to make with the government of Pakistan.

01:37:39.000 --> 01:37:54.000
AV Team: was that we will help you in helping yourself in lieu of digitization and digitalization. When I say digitization, it's archiving the legacy record. And when I say digitalization.

01:37:54.000 --> 01:38:10.000
AV Team: is reforming the processes using the digital technology. So these 2 streams. So we said, we will charge a fee for in lieu of digitization and digitalization for the government of Pakistan for.

01:38:10.000 --> 01:38:22.000
AV Team: all the MDAs in what, at that time, we used to call e-gov services. And so, yeah, but I told them that, you know, if it… the registration is voluntarily.

01:38:22.000 --> 01:38:37.000
AV Team: And you have only registered 45% of the people. This means that something is missing, which is the user experience, the citizen experience, the incentive framework for the citizen.

01:38:37.000 --> 01:38:43.000
AV Team: why should they get the ID card? So, A, we have to.

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AV Team: Go for universal coverage, and then we start charging the fee. So the first ID card is free of the cost, would be free of the cost, and so the interior minister said, okay, we don't have money, and so we are going to.

01:38:58.000 --> 01:39:02.000
AV Team: Give them free of cost, ID card, how you'll do it.

01:39:02.000 --> 01:39:18.000
AV Team: And then I said that we will create a good user experience, the customer experience. So we built state of the art like Walmart, Secretary of State offices where the people do not have to actually.

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AV Team: Uh, you know, wait in line. And that, we introduced a premium service.

01:39:23.000 --> 01:39:30.000
AV Team: for which the citizen have to pay more for the urgent services.

01:39:31.000 --> 01:39:49.000
AV Team: So that created some sort of financial autonomy, and people came in, they liked the service, the people who had more money, and we defrayed the cost of free ID cards. So it started with zero donor dependency.

01:39:49.000 --> 01:40:09.000
AV Team: But the key was separating the function. Nadra was issuing free ID card, giving premium services, and we started G2G verification with telecom and with the banks, because banks were under the pressure.

01:40:09.000 --> 01:40:24.000
AV Team: for KYC compliance and AML compliance. So we said, okay, we will give you that opportunity, but we will charge a simple fee. Yeah, we got some problem because banks said, no, we want a free service.

01:40:24.000 --> 01:40:39.000
AV Team: But, uh, you know, then you have to talk to them that, okay, you know, I opened my bank account with you, it's my money, but when I withdraw the money, you know, I have to write a check, and in order to write the check, I have to pay for the checkbook.

01:40:39.000 --> 01:40:51.000
AV Team: Right? So, similar… in similar fashion, you know, if you need to decrease your verification fee, here is an electronic system.

01:40:51.000 --> 01:41:11.000
AV Team: We had a lot of diaspora living outside the country. They can afford the premium services, so the smart cards were launched, and we earned the revenue from them. Some other applications like passport, visa services, and.

01:41:11.000 --> 01:41:27.000
AV Team: you know, some other Mdas approached us that we want to improve the service delivery. So we charge very nominal fees. So that was Nadra. These fees were set by Cabinet and approved by the Cabinet.

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AV Team: Javier Sanchez, after a lot of deliberation in the Parliament. Right?

01:41:32.000 --> 01:41:47.000
AV Team: The NTL arm provided lots of services to banking and telecom sector, and we had, as Alex mentioned, used our expertise to export.

01:41:47.000 --> 01:42:03.000
AV Team: to the different countries. So various countries came up to us. I won't name them. And some of those countries were in a vendor lock situation. So NADRA engineers went in there in African countries and eliminated vendor lock.

01:42:03.000 --> 01:42:19.000
AV Team: and help them to basically help themselves prepare the develop the indigenous system so that they have the source code. They have the skills, and we train their engineers. And in doing that we earn.

01:42:19.000 --> 01:42:37.000
AV Team: Som revenue. Not like commercial on But the small revenue is lot of rubies. Og vi invendede den isoler platform.

01:42:37.000 --> 01:42:53.000
AV Team: Companies are actually world to run around.

01:42:53.000 --> 01:43:14.000
AV Team: and collect the bills. So we created like 17,000 of these atms human atms who would open a franchisee network and collect the bills of from the surrounding and get, you know, 5 dollar or 5 rupees.

01:43:14.000 --> 01:43:29.000
AV Team: of per transaction, and then it would ease out. You know the bill payments and the bill collection from the companies and the citizens also that created a lot of you know, revenue.

01:43:29.000 --> 01:43:44.000
AV Team: So basically five revenue actors, citizens were paying for the premium services, but getting the fee ID card as well. Residents would pay for a higher fee.

01:43:44.000 --> 01:43:56.000
AV Team: Uh, for resident card, G2G services, we have 143 million transactions, uh, per, uh, per annum.

01:43:56.000 --> 01:44:02.000
AV Team: We have G2B banks and telecoms and projects, as I explained it to you.

01:44:02.000 --> 01:44:03.000
AV Team: So.

01:44:06.000 --> 01:44:10.000
AV Team: into… our journey is basically…

01:44:10.000 --> 01:44:11.000
AV Team: I think I…

01:44:11.000 --> 01:44:16.000
AV Team: Last slide. This one. Yeah, this one.

01:44:16.000 --> 01:44:18.000
AV Team: Okay.

01:44:18.000 --> 01:44:34.000
AV Team: So the journey was that in 2000 to 2004, it was just like initial government capex invested and we returned that loan in 2008, around eight or nine.

01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:50.000
AV Team: We had paper-based IDs, but we started digitization in 2008. We implemented the biometric database, and we integrated the banks and telecoms, and then some MDAs like elections, passport.

01:44:50.000 --> 01:45:06.000
AV Team: Imagine, you know, I have done this in Malawi also where, you know, the electoral list is now prepared with election commission and in collaboration with ID agency, NRP.

01:45:06.000 --> 01:45:23.000
AV Team: And it has saved them, I think, $26 or $30 million per election cycle. Same thing happened in Pakistan. It saved a lot of money. So when you go to those MDAs and tell them that how much savings they will actually.

01:45:23.000 --> 01:45:26.000
AV Team: They would be able to invest in your system also.

01:45:26.000 --> 01:45:44.000
AV Team: So, uh, from 2009, we scaled our services, and we achieved almost universal coverage. 97% of that service, uh, of the coverage is still there. We started social protection program, we started.

01:45:44.000 --> 01:46:00.000
AV Team: architecting that program. And we had consistent annual revenue. Our annual revenue from 2009 till today outweighs the CapEx and OpEx.

01:46:00.000 --> 01:46:09.000
AV Team: So that's the key point. And so there is no dependency on donors. And so the journey is…

01:46:09.000 --> 01:46:27.000
AV Team: Build nationwide coverage first, earn trust before charging, mandate usage to avoid multiple systems, and monetize only once when the coverage is sufficient, and separate the two authorities, sovereign and commercial.

01:46:27.000 --> 01:46:42.000
AV Team: So these 2 entities have a concession agreement with them. So government can talk to Ntn and say, Well, you, we have now disaster, earthquake, flood, war, Idp crisis, refugee crisis.

01:46:42.000 --> 01:46:53.000
AV Team: So the government can say that no fee should be charged for this activity. And there are examples that we don't charge fee for.

01:46:53.000 --> 01:46:54.000
AV Team: those.

01:46:54.000 --> 01:47:12.000
AV Team: These are some lessons learned. Coverage before monetization, I already discussed. Separate sovereign and commercial, that is also discussed. Protect revenue autonomy in law. That is very important and I want to talk about it.

01:47:13.000 --> 01:47:28.000
AV Team: Sometimes commercial organization grows so fast that it creates a tension between the sovereign authority and the commercial organization. What are those tensions? We'll briefly discuss a couple of those.

01:47:28.000 --> 01:47:39.000
AV Team: Ist.

01:47:39.000 --> 01:47:49.000
AV Team: Ist.

01:47:49.000 --> 01:48:08.000
AV Team: Ist.

01:48:08.000 --> 01:48:23.000
AV Team: would not go that much on the trips like this conference, you know, is fully funded by Ntl. And so you don't need government permission. Right? So this created a tension, a bureaucratic tension.

01:48:23.000 --> 01:48:43.000
AV Team: The third type of tension is that when you have so much revenue in NADRA and NTN, there is a bureaucratic tension in the bureaucracy. Everybody wants to become the chairman of NADRA or CEO of NADRA. Nobody wants to be the federal secretary or principal secretary.

01:48:43.000 --> 01:48:59.000
AV Team: So I am the victim of some of those tensions also, because there is a lot of money in the organization, so they want to control the money. I would be very honest, you know, and I'm notorious of being honest, so I don't owe much of the diplomatic.

01:48:59.000 --> 01:49:08.000
AV Team: you know, wordings. But you know these are the things that you have to be mindful of.

01:49:08.000 --> 01:49:20.000
AV Team: So in 2019, when I left Nadra and the organization was captured by a top bureaucrat who was closer to the prime minister, they introduced that you have to.

01:49:20.000 --> 01:49:26.000
AV Team: give the revenue back to the back to the treasure.

01:49:26.000 --> 01:49:28.000
AV Team: So it happened and.

01:49:28.000 --> 01:49:39.000
AV Team: because I architected it in a way that, you know, revenue keeps on flowing, so it is key… it is still flowing, but I don't know, I can't guarantee till when.

01:49:39.000 --> 01:49:51.000
AV Team: So this means that you have to do some legislative, put it in the legislative framework, and get it approved by the Act of the Parliament.

01:49:51.000 --> 01:50:07.000
AV Team: And last but not the least, keep pricing simple and flat. Like we charge only 8 cents per query for KYC. So similarly, give yourself a room.

01:50:07.000 --> 01:50:19.000
AV Team: that for national initiatives, like in the terms of crisis, you just don't charge anything and there should be services free of cost. Thank you very much.

01:50:26.000 --> 01:50:27.000
AV Team: Thank you.

01:50:34.000 --> 01:50:36.000
AV Team: Good morning, everyone.

01:50:37.000 --> 01:50:51.000
AV Team: I'll make it very quick so that we can have enough time to have a Q&A session. So it's really a humbling start for us.

01:50:51.000 --> 01:50:59.000
AV Team: last, like, I can say 5 years back, when we talk about it, not just only digital it.

01:50:59.000 --> 01:51:03.000
AV Team: It was a kind of a topic conversation.

01:51:04.000 --> 01:51:13.000
AV Team: Because most people, they see it as a kind of fine setting for them, even if they are facing so many challenges.

01:51:13.000 --> 01:51:24.000
AV Team: Institutions like financial sector, telecom sector, trying to have their own biometric collection machines.

01:51:24.000 --> 01:51:29.000
AV Team: Uh, to do their own KYC here and there. So many databases.

01:51:29.000 --> 01:51:31.000
AV Team: Uh…

01:51:31.000 --> 01:51:37.000
AV Team: educational sector struggling with routes, you know, exam cheatings and all of that.

01:51:37.000 --> 01:51:39.000
AV Team: Uh…

01:51:40.000 --> 01:51:45.000
AV Team: We've been saying a messy miss needs, you know, access to finance.

01:51:45.000 --> 01:52:01.000
AV Team: But still, there's no any trust in place for them to be granted a little amount of injection of money for them just to boost their business.

01:52:01.000 --> 01:52:03.000
AV Team: The challenge is…

01:52:03.000 --> 01:52:10.000
AV Team: I mean, I can mention them. And hopefully, most of you guys know.

01:52:10.000 --> 01:52:17.000
AV Team: So we started our journey with only five engineers.

01:52:17.000 --> 01:52:30.000
AV Team: And a fund from government, you know, when the government fund, right? It's always, you know, very strict, and it's somehow not very attractive enough.

01:52:30.000 --> 01:52:34.000
AV Team: to, to, to, to, to somehow, uh.

01:52:34.000 --> 01:52:47.000
AV Team: hire, you know, technology officials, technology officers, not just even seniors, but also juniors as well, because they are more attracted to the remote work from the Us. And Europe.

01:52:47.000 --> 01:52:52.000
AV Team: So that's how we started our journey.

01:52:52.000 --> 01:53:02.000
AV Team: We promised one thing, inclusion, security by inclusion. That's our core principle.

01:53:02.000 --> 01:53:06.000
AV Team: And we said, it's not a national ID.

01:53:06.000 --> 01:53:08.000
AV Team: or only for nationals.

01:53:08.000 --> 01:53:14.000
AV Team: who hold an Ethiopian citizen, but also others who are actually living in a nation.

01:53:14.000 --> 01:53:27.000
AV Team: Most importantly, refugees. We hosted more than 1 million refugees, and they're not just being in the camp, but they're actually interacting with the community.

01:53:27.000 --> 01:53:32.000
AV Team: But the challenge is real, especially for them.

01:53:32.000 --> 01:53:44.000
AV Team: And there is a law saying they can open an account, they can run a business, but it's hard for them to navigate through all the bureaucracies.

01:53:44.000 --> 01:53:58.000
AV Team: So when we say inclusion, we're not just only talking about our citizens, but also about refugees, foreigners with permit IDs, and all of that, because it's all about service, right?

01:53:58.000 --> 01:54:01.000
AV Team: And it's for everyone who's living with Amish.

01:54:01.000 --> 01:54:02.000
AV Team: So…

01:54:03.000 --> 01:54:11.000
AV Team: In terms of kicking off our project, we started our very first pilot in one of…

01:54:11.000 --> 01:54:24.000
AV Team: uh, industry zones. Uh, they're… they hosted more than, uh, 60,000 employees, mostly women, and they tried to open an account. Apparently, most of them, they don't have an ID.

01:54:24.000 --> 01:54:33.000
AV Team: Which is the most difficult thing. And then we see it as an opportunity somehow to see and to validate what we are doing.

01:54:33.000 --> 01:54:41.000
AV Team: Especially for our government to say, this is the reason. And we actually managed.

01:54:41.000 --> 01:54:48.000
AV Team: That was our first success story. And it wasn't just a kind of smooth.

01:54:48.000 --> 01:54:59.000
AV Team: We have had some challenges, and we took some of the lessons, especially when it comes to awareness and understanding of the idea.

01:54:59.000 --> 01:55:15.000
AV Team: Some people they related it with, you know, some sort of you know, a kind of, you know, taboo issues like 660 and all of that. But we've gone through that. And now we are actually managed to reach 43 million.

01:55:16.000 --> 01:55:31.000
AV Team: And every week we are adding 1 million. And we are not alone. We are actually working and collaborating with different entities, not just because we do have commercial arrangements, but also they believe in our vision.

01:55:31.000 --> 01:55:50.000
AV Team: For instance, commercial banks, telephone institutions, and they are the ones actually doing the enrollment process. We basically tapping into their existing huge and robust operational capacity.

01:55:50.000 --> 01:55:56.000
AV Team: So that we can have a room and a space for us to focus on the data aspect of the business.

01:55:57.000 --> 01:56:01.000
AV Team: when it comes to it for us. It's not a cut.

01:56:01.000 --> 01:56:09.000
AV Team: That's the number. And we want institutions to use that number and to do the next step of their action.

01:56:09.000 --> 01:56:15.000
AV Team: And when it comes to generating ID, it's 100% free for everyone.

01:56:15.000 --> 01:56:17.000
AV Team: to get it.

01:56:17.000 --> 01:56:20.000
AV Team: And for institutions.

01:56:20.000 --> 01:56:31.000
AV Team: Currently, we're not charging anything. We prioritize for them to understand it well and to acquire it good enough.

01:56:31.000 --> 01:56:47.000
AV Team: And then we'll come to that conversation when it comes to, you know, a bit of kind of fee. It's hard to say it's truly a fee, because our model is not strictly commercial. We're not focusing on that aspect.

01:56:47.000 --> 01:57:02.000
AV Team: Our model is more into service enhancement and service excellency so that they can actually see and understand what value are actually proposing for them.

01:57:03.000 --> 01:57:05.000
AV Team: Um, so…

01:57:06.000 --> 01:57:21.000
AV Team: Currently, we managed somehow, I can say, closely to work with more than 132 institutions, agencies, including financial sector, telecom sector, and all of that.

01:57:21.000 --> 01:57:26.000
AV Team: And one of the bottlenecks that I have is one customer onboarding.

01:57:26.000 --> 01:57:32.000
AV Team: We are 130 million people, 40% of the population, they don't have nothing in their hand.

01:57:32.000 --> 01:57:48.000
AV Team: just to show, and maybe to open an account or to buy a SIM card. So when we see an opportunity. we see also a kind of a solution that we are providing, not just only for the institutions for them to expand their market.

01:58:24.000 --> 01:58:41.000
AV Team: born out of Fida, one muscle, one stop shop center, one of the bottlenecks when it comes to, you know, government service, you know, running here and there. Somehow, maybe, you know, there is a tip that we need to to give for someone to to fasten the process. So.

01:58:41.000 --> 01:58:56.000
AV Team: Muslim is a one stop shop, and we're scaling up in that aspect. And it's a government initiative. And Fida Id is a gate pass for that. And we are enabling the public sector sector to be more, you know, active enough. And.

01:58:56.000 --> 01:59:12.000
AV Team: streamlined enough to serve the community. It's access to finance for farmers. We are also highly engaging with them. It's a collaboration between National Bank of Ethiopia and Ministry of Agriculture for access to finance.

01:59:12.000 --> 01:59:27.000
AV Team: for farmers, and we are aiming next year by 2027 to reach 1 million farmers. And we are also part of that big initiative. And we are glad. And we're actually happy with that.

01:59:27.000 --> 01:59:32.000
AV Team: And there are so many initiatives going on because of IDA Digital ID.

01:59:32.000 --> 01:59:42.000
AV Team: And now we're also talking about, in the past, like I say, last year, if I'm doing a presentation, there was no such thing called, uh, what you call it, uh…

01:59:42.000 --> 01:59:58.000
AV Team: credit scoring. But now credit scoring is now the discussion within the financial sector because of Fida. So these are some of the key things that I want to share with you later also within that Q&A session.

01:59:58.000 --> 02:00:13.000
AV Team: We started in 2020 by capacity building, not just only for our own team, but also for different entities. As you know, Ethiopia is a federal government.

02:00:13.000 --> 02:00:30.000
AV Team: structure. So regions, they do have their own semi autonomy power, meaning that we need to sit with them. Give them a bit of, you know, synthesization for them to understand and to allow us to go in, you know, do the registration and all of that. So.

02:00:30.000 --> 02:00:44.000
AV Team: capacity building, like I mentioned, we started our pilot even before the additional ID proclamation, so that we can validate and showcase what we are actually doing on the ground. And that, by itself.

02:00:44.000 --> 02:00:50.000
AV Team: was one of the critical input for the proclamations 1284/2023.

02:00:51.000 --> 02:01:06.000
AV Team: and build enabled between 2024 and 2025. We actually managed to onboard our enrollment partners, printing partners so that we can leverage their own capacity.

02:01:06.000 --> 02:01:21.000
AV Team: because we are a team of 70, especially now the 40, and then not more than 100 when it comes to data quality assurance officers. So we managed to onboard telecom sectors like I mentioned.

02:01:21.000 --> 02:01:26.000
AV Team: ETO post for the delivery services and all of that.

02:01:26.000 --> 02:01:45.000
AV Team: and in terms of registration for them to be, you know, motivated. We even somehow kind of put it a type of price for them to to be motivated to do that. And now they are the ones actually accelerating the registration process.

02:01:45.000 --> 02:02:00.000
AV Team: 2026, 2029 activate activate and sustain. So sustainability is everything. Right? It's it's it's 1 of you know, the precious dpi.

02:02:00.000 --> 02:02:11.000
AV Team: kind of resources when we think of, you know, digital id like Fida. So now we're saying 20 43 million. We are aiming to reach 90 million by the end of this year.

02:02:11.000 --> 02:02:30.000
AV Team: Uh, you know, uh, our colleagues, my colleagues, especially detective, uh, there are, you know, uh, inboxes through their LinkedIn saying that, why don't you work with us? Uh, there are chats, uh, saying for them to come into work in the US and in, you know, in Europe.

02:02:31.000 --> 02:02:44.000
AV Team: So 1 1 key challenge that we have is now being a public institution is somehow difficult to to to make sure that for them.

02:02:44.000 --> 02:02:55.000
AV Team: satisfied and stay in our institution because public service salary is not something attractive, right?

02:02:55.000 --> 02:03:13.000
AV Team: So we're trying our best to make sure that these precious young engineers to stay a bit longer with us, and maybe to pipeline others to come and join them and strengthen and sustain our, you know.

02:03:13.000 --> 02:03:21.000
AV Team: business, because our talent is the core. Of course, there is a technology part, but without talent is nothing, right? So, uh, when it comes to.

02:03:21.000 --> 02:03:38.000
AV Team: sustainability. We are transitioning from a project to a sustainable institution and to generate revenue with different models. Some of them are actually highlighted.

02:03:38.000 --> 02:03:54.000
AV Team: earlier. So we are now no longer a project, but it's a 5 diverse. That's an institution. And we are focusing on, you know, empowering institutions to to provide.

02:03:54.000 --> 02:04:12.000
AV Team: services like I mentioned the Nafir, the credit scoring the community based health insurance. We do have more than 55 million beneficiaries. There is a leak there. Ghost account social registry. So many problems.

02:04:12.000 --> 02:04:21.000
AV Team: So we are trying to support them and get something out of it. And at the same time we're also working on the.

02:04:21.000 --> 02:04:37.000
AV Team: the technology export and supporting other sister and brotherly African countries. And we are closely working with them. And it's not about business. It's more about collaboration.

02:04:37.000 --> 02:04:52.000
AV Team: It's sort of it's it's more about, you know, making sure that other countries actually learning from us the same way that we learn from. You know, India the same way that we learn from Philippines. And as you know, since we are within the continent.

02:04:52.000 --> 02:05:09.000
AV Team: we do have similarities in terms of, you know, social behavior including, you know, economic aspect and all of that. So I think we do have something to share. And and there is also a kind of.

02:05:09.000 --> 02:05:24.000
AV Team: a kind of benefit that you're also expecting from that as well. So this is also one way of, you know, being getting something out of it. So when it comes to our principles, the 1st one 3 1st to prove their value.

02:05:24.000 --> 02:05:40.000
AV Team: So we are not yet monetizing anything, including the card print. The Ethiopost, which is the delivery company, they are the ones actually printing the card and distributing it. So we are not monetizing anything so far.

02:05:40.000 --> 02:05:43.000
AV Team: Rohini, where are veiling to build the trust.

02:05:43.000 --> 02:05:49.000
AV Team: with between, you know, citizens or residences, including refugees.

02:05:49.000 --> 02:05:58.000
AV Team: As well as institutions like commercial bank, telephone sector, social registry, and so on and so forth, including startups.

02:05:58.000 --> 02:06:02.000
AV Team: So that's the the the core principle, just to get the trust.

02:06:02.000 --> 02:06:07.000
AV Team: The second, the second is separate project from institution.

02:06:07.000 --> 02:06:09.000
AV Team: La commission des affaires étrangère.

02:06:09.000 --> 02:06:17.000
AV Team: To standing.

02:06:17.000 --> 02:06:21.000
AV Team: Il y en afghanistanburghanistanburghanistanburghanistanburghanistanburghanistanburghanistanburghanistanbul.

02:06:21.000 --> 02:06:22.000
AV Team: Il y.

02:06:22.000 --> 02:06:26.000
AV Team: loan funded project to sustain by the.

02:06:26.000 --> 02:06:41.000
AV Team: by our own, and make sure that this project serve for other companies, not just only the technology that you have now, but also other people coming. So we are also planning to adopt them as well.

02:06:41.000 --> 02:06:42.000
AV Team: But.

02:06:42.000 --> 02:06:58.000
AV Team: the there is a service point mandate. We're not saying Fida registration is a mandatory, but institutions are actually adopting it as their primary Id.

02:06:58.000 --> 02:07:13.000
AV Team: For instance, the financial sector are now adopting it as a primary id. The National Bank of Ethiopia is now mandating that, and other sectors as well. I hope some of the things that are already mentioned.

02:07:13.000 --> 02:07:19.000
AV Team: earlier before. So I'm looking forward to hear from you guys. And thank you so much.

02:07:26.000 --> 02:07:34.000
AV Team: Thank you very much, dear panel members. I'll do a few summarizing remarks, and then I suggest we open for discussion.

02:07:35.000 --> 02:07:53.000
AV Team: So clearly, investments into sustainability are key to build trust, because once we set up those systems, and even with big enrollments, uh, there's no yet a good track record on service delivery and how the population benefits from it, right? So it's quite critical to invest into sustainability so that.

02:07:53.000 --> 02:08:11.000
AV Team: There is a trust in the population that they actually benefit from ID systems. Hence, focus on service delivery is key. I know that in many African countries, focus on security is also key, which is quite valid, but it needs to be balanced also with a focus on service delivery.

02:08:11.000 --> 02:08:25.000
AV Team: And all-inclusive, not only citizens, as we could see. Now, commercial interest versus public interest. Quite, uh, quite an interesting, uh, remark. And, as you could see, people first. Uh, now…

02:08:25.000 --> 02:08:31.000
AV Team: Actually, public interest assure more revenues, which may not sound so counterintuitive, but.

02:08:31.000 --> 02:08:52.000
AV Team: If commercial interests prevail, then your systems become less and less inclusive, and hence it's less and less interesting for potential sectors to tap into those systems because you have less population enrolled. We need to always keep that in mind, that only inclusive systems essentially would be of most interest.

02:08:52.000 --> 02:08:55.000
AV Team: even to generate those revenues.

02:08:55.000 --> 02:09:11.000
AV Team: Аа, Імпотент?

02:09:11.000 --> 02:09:28.000
AV Team: Ви контекст?

02:09:28.000 --> 02:09:33.000
AV Team: There are some interesting ideas, but it will all depend on the context.

02:09:33.000 --> 02:09:48.000
AV Team: So PPP was an interesting example, but clearly it needs to be quite balanced with a strong focus on inclusion and obviously setting up fees for services seems to be quite difficult.

02:09:48.000 --> 02:10:03.000
AV Team: tricky, right? It can't be too high, or you will deter the demand for the services. It can't be too complicated, because that will also not yield the demand for the services. So, it's really kind of an economic exercise and a bit of piloting.

02:10:03.000 --> 02:10:20.000
AV Team: Ее?

02:10:20.000 --> 02:10:39.000
AV Team: Я талант?

02:10:39.000 --> 02:10:43.000
AV Team: to stay in Africa and provide public services.

02:10:45.000 --> 02:11:03.000
AV Team: And I wanted to say that I think there's a new path for us in Africa. I have worked in many regions. This is the most exciting and innovative regions of all, probably because there is so much demand, maybe limited fiscal space, but you are all being incredibly creative.

02:11:03.000 --> 02:11:23.000
AV Team: And even with this topic of digital ID systems, when you look at other countries outside the continent, not so many have them. So, I think you as a continent have a lot to offer as you develop and mature those systems, and as was pointed out, within the continent, supporting each other, but also providing the services outside the continent, and having something.

02:11:23.000 --> 02:11:28.000
AV Team: offer to the world, which we already have a lot to offer, but that's one more avenue.

02:11:29.000 --> 02:11:51.000
AV Team: So let's, with that, open up for a discussion. If you have questions, let's start with the audience here. Maybe stand up, say your name, and have a question. If you have a particular speaker identified, that's great. If not, I will route it. Let's start with a few questions online, and then we will go offline. Sorry, not online, in the audience, and then we will go online.

02:11:51.000 --> 02:11:52.000
AV Team: Yes.

02:11:56.000 --> 02:12:14.000
AV Team: Thank you. Reynald Garrier from Haiti. I've been smiling because in Haiti, we're trying to do the same thing as the Pakistan model. And my question is, down the road, is it the population?

02:12:14.000 --> 02:12:25.000
AV Team: Paying for the service, because when you provide ekyc to the bank, the financial sector, and I'm pretty sure they will pass.

02:12:25.000 --> 02:12:32.000
AV Team: This cost to the final customer. So down the world isn't the population paying for the service.

02:12:32.000 --> 02:12:34.000
AV Team: Eric.

02:12:40.000 --> 02:12:50.000
AV Team: Yes, that's true. Population is paying for the service like the premium service. If it's a financial inclusion.

02:12:50.000 --> 02:13:00.000
AV Team: program, opening the bank account for the poor people, you know, they don't pay much. But if they want a premium service, you know.

02:13:00.000 --> 02:13:11.000
AV Team: Then they have to pay. So it's like the concept of taxing the rich and providing subsidy to the poor.

02:13:11.000 --> 02:13:14.000
AV Team: So that model works actually.

02:13:14.000 --> 02:13:16.000
AV Team: for Pakistan.

02:13:16.000 --> 02:13:35.000
AV Team: And I would like to add to that that the question of regulations is quite tricky. It can be only set for the ID system, so yes, when you think about it, you have to think precisely about those questions, and how to make sure that the poorest do not end up absorbing those costs, and how you may have regulations.

02:13:35.000 --> 02:13:47.000
AV Team: also set in those other sectors. That's why in Haiti we work with the central bank to subsidize for the cooperative.

02:13:47.000 --> 02:13:51.000
AV Team: Exactly. That's what we do. Exactly. Great.

02:13:56.000 --> 02:14:00.000
AV Team: Merci beaucoup, je vais mes premieres en fr.

02:14:02.000 --> 02:14:11.000
AV Team: Je suis, Monsieur Tiriblay, on gar la carte. Je suis, conseil Jourdique, aux prets du ministre de la securite de la Republique Centrafic.

02:14:11.000 --> 02:14:26.000
AV Team: Uh, je vrouais remercier tous les panelistes pour les differentes presentations. J'ai quelques questions a poser, relative moi a l'intervention, au discours de virtue de madame la represente de rappelment mondiale, et…

02:14:26.000 --> 02:14:40.000
AV Team: Bon, merci, je voudrais vous présenter très brièvement le processus au niveau de mon pays, Nous sommes sur l'élaboration, nous sommes pas encore trop avancés dans le processus.

02:14:40.000 --> 02:14:57.000
AV Team: Nous sommes sur l'élaboration de la stratégie nationale en matière d'identification, et c'est grâce à l'appui de la Banque mondiale que nous sommes en train de réussir ce processus, mais il y a une question qui ne cesse de me tarauder: pourquoi la Banque mondiale ne s'arrête.

02:14:57.000 --> 02:15:08.000
AV Team: Cofinancement des études de faisabilité et ne parvient pas à aboutir à la mise en oeuvre.

02:15:08.000 --> 02:15:25.000
AV Team: Et ce qui me renvoie à penser Est-ce: que le pays, notre pays, la Rca devrait faire avec le modèle éthiopien ou bien le modèle pakistanais à travers le Ppp.

02:15:25.000 --> 02:15:37.000
AV Team: Qu'est-ce que vous pouvez nous conseiller? Parce qu'au jour d'aujourd'hui, le projet qui nous appuie dans l'élaboration de la stratégie, c'est de d'arriver à son terme au mois de décembre.

02:15:37.000 --> 02:15:47.000
AV Team: Est ce que la Banque mondiale va continuer à appuyer le pays dans ce processus ou est ce que le pays devrait penser à un Ppp. Je vous remercie.

02:15:48.000 --> 02:16:01.000
AV Team: Ok Excellente question, c'était moi en fait qui ai commencé à travailler un accès assuré sur cette requête et nous sommes ravis que le pays avance avec ses démarches. Félicitations.

02:16:35.000 --> 02:16:41.000
AV Team: Ok May Bel continue English We You Vous avez l'équipement Oui.

02:16:58.000 --> 02:17:13.000
AV Team: And happy to exchange with you separately. And even if you choose a PPP model, there's still room for us to fund you. But either way, congratulations. It's just good that the country is taking this journey forward.

02:17:15.000 --> 02:17:35.000
AV Team: Thanks. I just had a quick follow up question on the Pakistani model. You mentioned that it's taking from the well payers and kind of subsidizing the others, the Robin Hood type of model. But you also mentioned that there's an 8 cent per query charge.

02:17:35.000 --> 02:17:40.000
AV Team: So I was interested in how that works because those…

02:17:40.000 --> 02:17:55.000
AV Team: you know, anytime there's a query, are you subsidizing those queries when they're for kind of underbanked or unbanked people who are developing an account? How does that work? Yes. Yeah, we, um… we have some social protection programs, so we have…

02:17:55.000 --> 02:18:00.000
AV Team: The database, sort of, of poorest of poor.

02:18:00.000 --> 02:18:14.000
AV Team: So there was a proxy mean testing done after a complete survey of Pakistan. So we know if you exist in that social protection registry.

02:18:14.000 --> 02:18:28.000
AV Team: And you want to open an account with financial institution or a bank, then we don't charge the fee.

02:18:28.000 --> 02:18:32.000
AV Team: To the bank. Yeah. So bank also subsidizes.

02:18:38.000 --> 02:18:50.000
AV Team: Thank you so much about Ethiopia. So we are not charging the residents or the citizens we expect from institutions like commercial banks.

02:18:50.000 --> 02:18:58.000
AV Team: Telecom sectors, and so on and so forth. When it comes to social protection programs.

02:18:58.000 --> 02:19:13.000
AV Team: There is a special waiver whenever there is a call for authentication from their system. And one thing that I realized that when we.

02:19:13.000 --> 02:19:19.000
AV Team: do this implementation. One bank only one bank, not even the biggest one.

02:19:19.000 --> 02:19:36.000
AV Team: there was an initiation, an initiative for them to to buy different devices and procure to procure different devices for them to secure their transactions. And there is a billion.

02:19:36.000 --> 02:19:37.000
AV Team: Ah, I.

02:19:37.000 --> 02:19:38.000
AV Team: the bruh.

02:19:38.000 --> 02:19:54.000
AV Team: leakage and fraud in each and every sector. So when we say we're charging institutions, we're not just thinking that thinking, thinking it as a commercial kind of arrangement. But.

02:19:54.000 --> 02:20:10.000
AV Team: rather, you know, taking some of the burdens from, you know, those institutions and making sure that they're 100% secure when it comes to, you know, identity fraud and related activities. So it's hard to say it's a kind of commercial arrangement, because we're taking.

02:20:11.000 --> 02:20:22.000
AV Team: the burdens, and there are. I've seen arranges being in the shelf hard to implement, because there is no any.

02:20:22.000 --> 02:20:23.000
AV Team: Trust framework.

02:20:23.000 --> 02:20:28.000
AV Team: Now we are actually opening up the door and for them to be more innovative.

02:20:28.000 --> 02:20:34.000
AV Team: Patrick St.when we say we're charging, we're saying, sharing the buttons. That's how we see it.

02:20:34.000 --> 02:20:36.000
AV Team: Thank you.

02:20:36.000 --> 02:20:49.000
AV Team: And I forgot to mention that I think State Bank of Pakistan has instruction not to shift the cost to the customer, but you know how enforcement of that is.

02:20:49.000 --> 02:21:00.000
AV Team: Um, I have a question to both of you, to the two of you. So, when you define the institutional setup, a public institution and a private institution.

02:21:00.000 --> 02:21:10.000
AV Team: Did you have to? How did you legalize that? Did you have to go and talk to the Minister of Finance to the Prime Minister to get their support?

02:21:10.000 --> 02:21:25.000
AV Team: Did you have to approve a government decision that brought these arrangements into the legal framework of the country? And second, how did you define the costing of the fee?

02:21:25.000 --> 02:21:40.000
AV Team: The price of the fee. Is there a methodology in your country? Because you are not the only public player in the government which is delivering services for a price.

02:21:40.000 --> 02:21:46.000
AV Team: Did you have to use a costing methodology to say it's one cent or two cents?

02:21:46.000 --> 02:21:47.000
AV Team: Yes.

02:21:47.000 --> 02:22:04.000
AV Team: Yeah, the answer to the 1st question, if I can take, or you want to take. It's okay. Okay. The answer to the 1st question is that I can share my journey, because, you know, we went to our ministry, Ministry of Interior, and presented the plan.

02:22:04.000 --> 02:22:10.000
AV Team: And Ministry of Interior approved it. I mean, first I had to go to my board.

02:22:10.000 --> 02:22:27.000
AV Team: Nadra's board approved it. We went to the Ministry of Interior. Ministry of Interior involved Ministry of Law. So the legal part actually worked that whether, you know, it is doable or not, then Security Exchange Commission of Pakistan.

02:22:28.000 --> 02:22:38.000
AV Team: They got involved and then the case was presented to the cabinet. So cabinet reviewed it and then they said, okay, we can.

02:22:38.000 --> 02:22:47.000
AV Team: deliberate in the Special Committee of the Parliament, which deals with NADRA and everything. So there was a deliberation, and then it got approved.

02:22:47.000 --> 02:22:51.000
AV Team: So that was the approval process.

02:22:51.000 --> 02:22:59.000
AV Team: Now, the second thing was, uh, how we priced the, uh, the ID cards and the…

02:22:59.000 --> 02:23:01.000
AV Team: Transaction fee.

02:23:01.000 --> 02:23:20.000
AV Team: I think Alex had a very good slide where ID4D data was shared, that how much is the human cost, uh, also human resource cost, how much is credential cost, and all that. You know, we, uh, had… we prepared a sort of, uh, costing model.

02:23:20.000 --> 02:23:22.000
AV Team: And we said that.

02:23:22.000 --> 02:23:28.000
AV Team: This is how much it takes to register a citizen.

02:23:28.000 --> 02:23:32.000
AV Team: Not only credential cost, but all the cost.

02:23:32.000 --> 02:23:33.000
AV Team: Together.

02:23:33.000 --> 02:23:48.000
AV Team: So we calculated that and then the transaction cost included the license fee and all that. So we just bare minimum so that we can actually take care of our customers.

02:23:48.000 --> 02:23:59.000
AV Team: OPEX, not the CAPEX. CAPEX was done, so that cost was primarily on the OPEX cost.

02:24:05.000 --> 02:24:21.000
AV Team: Very interesting question. So the process, how we become a kind of public enterprise. So as a national aid program, we directly reported to the Prime Minister office since we are under the office of the Prime Minister.

02:24:21.000 --> 02:24:27.000
AV Team: So the 1st blessing that we get is from the Digital Council.

02:24:27.000 --> 02:24:36.000
AV Team: Uh, there is a digital council, uh, uh, leading the, uh, the, the national initiatives, mostly, uh, uh, the federal ones.

02:24:36.000 --> 02:24:44.000
AV Team: So we presented our, you know, proposal.

02:24:44.000 --> 02:24:59.000
AV Team: and they told us to do a kind of a mini research to understand the implementation process and the journey of other countries. We took some of the lessons, and of course there was a support from.

02:24:59.000 --> 02:25:08.000
AV Team: Worldwide Bank Group. Honestly speaking, I really need to appreciate the team from Worldwide Bank.

02:25:08.000 --> 02:25:23.000
AV Team: for for they're not just there, for you know, to track and pull up the project, but also they are highly supportive in all the process that we've been. And then, of course, that is actually still ongoing. And.

02:25:23.000 --> 02:25:39.000
AV Team: we have done a bit of research to understand which way that we can actually move forward. And then, once we done, we presented it to the Digital Council as well as the Prime Minister office, and they said, I think it's good idea.

02:25:39.000 --> 02:25:51.000
AV Team: Andet. Samhav forlog Samhav.

02:25:51.000 --> 02:25:53.000
AV Team: Er.

02:25:53.000 --> 02:26:05.000
AV Team: Profit company. But the still the impact is there. But the suggestion camps from digital council for us to be state on enterprise.

02:26:05.000 --> 02:26:21.000
AV Team: Og rundt.

02:26:21.000 --> 02:26:25.000
AV Team: a kind of what you call it.

02:26:25.000 --> 02:26:40.000
AV Team: Reality. Considering, you know, the 130 million population size the institutional capacity when it comes to, you know, payment and all of that. And now we reached somehow.

02:26:40.000 --> 02:26:46.000
AV Team: Etan Orgel, kind of Etan Orgel, a kind of fee that can actually.

02:26:46.000 --> 02:27:01.000
AV Team: fits with the current reality of the country. And we've have done so many consultations not just only between agencies, but also citizens across the region, cause.

02:27:01.000 --> 02:27:16.000
AV Team: without political buying institutional acceptance. It's nothing, because, as I mentioned earlier, we're doing our registration by driving and leveraging use cases like.

02:27:16.000 --> 02:27:30.000
AV Team: opening of an account, harmonization of an account, uh, harmonization of, uh, uh, uh, a team number with, uh, FIDA ID. So, uh, since we are doing everything with them.

02:27:30.000 --> 02:27:44.000
AV Team: And, of course, it's also a good idea to consult and to work with them, for them to somehow to buy our idea, and to make sure that we're on the same level of understanding.

02:27:56.000 --> 02:27:59.000
AV Team: We have this one as well.

02:28:00.000 --> 02:28:20.000
AV Team: Okay, we're gonna take two questions online, and then we're gonna back, uh, go back offline. So, um, since time is short, executive decision, and given the nature of the questions, Tarek, you will answer it. So, one question is, uh, and I'm asking you because you have done consulting for a lot of countries.

02:28:20.000 --> 02:28:38.000
AV Team: If you had a country with a smaller population, like 5 million, would you have done something differently from the experience with, obviously, larger population countries like Pakistan and Ethiopia? So, just a few quick thoughts on that, if you have done something differently, and maybe from your experiences, you have supported.

02:28:38.000 --> 02:28:58.000
AV Team: the smaller population countries. And the question is, the second question also to you, given the maturity of the Pakistan model, which were the strongest generating revenue services in the last five years in Pakistan, if you have this information, and how did you set up fees for that?

02:29:03.000 --> 02:29:06.000
AV Team: Okay, um…

02:29:06.000 --> 02:29:16.000
AV Team: Smaller countries can also use this model, but I have not done it. I have implemented from start to end.

02:29:16.000 --> 02:29:21.000
AV Team: Uh, to where it is now, Malawi, uh.

02:29:21.000 --> 02:29:25.000
AV Team: You know, digital ID system.

02:29:25.000 --> 02:29:37.000
AV Team: And it is working perfectly, but, uh, you know, there are some tensions that whether the government, when the… in times of crisis, they don't have budget, you know. If you have to…

02:29:37.000 --> 02:29:53.000
AV Team: choose between feeding the people at the time of draft, you know, and providing the smart cards, obviously you will opt for that. So, and I was struggling to tell them that, you know.

02:29:53.000 --> 02:30:01.000
AV Team: this model works, and involve banks, and involve other institutions. How does it work for a smaller country?

02:30:01.000 --> 02:30:05.000
AV Team: You know, when you create such a nice office.

02:30:05.000 --> 02:30:19.000
AV Team: which is an exemplary office for citizen services, which gives the premium service, just like passport… every country has urgent fee for the passport, you know? So the rich people say, okay, we are ready to pay that.

02:30:19.000 --> 02:30:26.000
AV Team: Use that office to provide the services for social protection registration also.

02:30:26.000 --> 02:30:31.000
AV Team: Those MDAs will start coming to you. Passport office…

02:30:31.000 --> 02:30:44.000
AV Team: came to, uh, Nadra and said, okay, you have this ID card office, but, uh, you know, we want to open a desk here also. So they will come, and they will give you the sum of the revenue.

02:30:44.000 --> 02:30:48.000
AV Team: And then, you know, diversify your…

02:30:48.000 --> 02:30:56.000
AV Team: Identity-based projects, just like, you know, taxation has nothing to do with ID.

02:30:56.000 --> 02:31:11.000
AV Team: card at that time when I went there. And I identified 3.5 million richest of rich people, and I asked the Federal Bureau of Revenue that this is just a case study, it's just like, you know, the people have.

02:31:11.000 --> 02:31:25.000
AV Team: you know, living in the posh localities, driving these cars, luxury cars and everything, and they don't have national tax number. So make ID card as your national tax number.

02:31:25.000 --> 02:31:34.000
AV Team: And if you collect the tax, minimum tax from them, just give 0.5% or 1% to Nadra.

02:31:34.000 --> 02:31:35.000
AV Team: for…

02:31:35.000 --> 02:31:42.000
AV Team: You know, helping you, right? Similarly for electoral roles also.

02:31:42.000 --> 02:31:49.000
AV Team: I mean, in your office, you can also register the new voters.

02:31:49.000 --> 02:31:51.000
AV Team: Free of cost.

02:31:51.000 --> 02:32:02.000
AV Team: But, you know, the Election Commission would say that, okay, we saved this much for voter registration, and we can give you some of our budget.

02:32:02.000 --> 02:32:16.000
AV Team: And so there are ways that smaller population countries can also architect these services where they can make some revenue.

02:32:16.000 --> 02:32:26.000
AV Team: This financial sustainability is so important to retain the technical staff.

02:32:26.000 --> 02:32:37.000
AV Team: and to upgrade the technology and pay for the services. If you are only dependent on the government, then government can shift the priorities anytime.

02:32:37.000 --> 02:32:51.000
AV Team: You know, and you would be, uh, waiting for… your ID program would impact in an adverse way where, you know, you won't be able to register, uh, the next wave of.

02:32:51.000 --> 02:32:56.000
AV Team: of the citizen who are turning into adult population.

02:32:56.000 --> 02:32:59.000
AV Team: So that is one. The second question was.

02:33:01.000 --> 02:33:04.000
AV Team: Top, top, yeah.

02:33:05.000 --> 02:33:16.000
AV Team: Yeah, so the telecom industry and the banking industry are top revenue.

02:33:16.000 --> 02:33:22.000
AV Team: For Pakistan, they are earning top revenue, but, uh, you know, the other…

02:33:22.000 --> 02:33:35.000
AV Team: uh, institutions like MDAs, helping MDAs, that money also come. That is the third one, the projects, or supporting your own ministries, and actually selling them.

02:33:35.000 --> 02:33:41.000
AV Team: that what benefit they will get by collaborating with you. That is third.

02:33:41.000 --> 02:33:56.000
AV Team: Thank you very much. Thank you both for the very forward-looking presentations. My name is Christine Kirote from UNHCR's Regional Bureau for Eastern Horn of Africa. My question would be to seek clarity from Ethiopia.

02:33:56.000 --> 02:34:16.000
AV Team: Because I saw on the first slide, you did reference both Zambia and Mozambique as models. The second was on the six years of delivery sequencing, the section on vehicles created, you said that Mozambique was the first DPI export MOU.

02:34:16.000 --> 02:34:31.000
AV Team: I didn't understand what the correlation was because you didn't talk about it. It would be good to also know from where you speak. Given that you've referenced these countries, are they also including refugees? Are you in discussion? And how far have you gone? Thank you.

02:34:33.000 --> 02:34:37.000
AV Team: Thank you so much. One of the…

02:34:37.000 --> 02:34:39.000
AV Team: The the.

02:34:39.000 --> 02:34:51.000
AV Team: the success stories that we're actually presenting to other African countries, and of course, the rest of the world is the collaboration that we have with UNHCR.

02:34:51.000 --> 02:34:55.000
AV Team: That's a very interesting one.

02:34:56.000 --> 02:35:01.000
AV Team: Let's say two years back, if a refugee wants to open an account, it'll take two months.

02:35:01.000 --> 02:35:06.000
AV Team: Imagine two month. Now it's just a matter of.

02:35:06.000 --> 02:35:13.000
AV Team: You know, 5 to 10 minutes, depending on the officer who's serving that refugee.

02:35:13.000 --> 02:35:15.000
AV Team: Because of FIDA.

02:35:15.000 --> 02:35:31.000
AV Team: We do have a special arrangement of, you know, data sharing model, of course, with consent of the refugees. So what we do is the refugee, they will go to the UNHCR endpoints, and then they provide.

02:35:31.000 --> 02:35:43.000
AV Team: their biometrics data, send more information for them with the consent, and then we'll get it through them, through the system, and then we'll create FIDA ID and then send it back to them.

02:35:43.000 --> 02:35:52.000
AV Team: And they popularize it as a refugee ID, and then give it to them, and then they will access any of the services that they are allowed.

02:35:52.000 --> 02:35:53.000
AV Team: So…

02:35:53.000 --> 02:36:03.000
AV Team: We do have engagements, like I mentioned, and then also you are underlined. Mozambique is one, Zambia also the other one.

02:36:03.000 --> 02:36:14.000
AV Team: So of course these countries, they do have their own way of, you know, working and then serving refugees. But one thing that we always advise is.

02:36:14.000 --> 02:36:21.000
AV Team: Inclusion is the most important one we're talking about.

02:36:21.000 --> 02:36:29.000
AV Team: interoperability. We're not just only talking about those who are living with their own countries. Now we're talking about ID interoperability between countries.

02:36:29.000 --> 02:36:37.000
AV Team: So when we think of that, refugees are the one needs to be somehow included.

02:36:37.000 --> 02:36:47.000
AV Team: So some of the tips and advices that we have is the lessons that we learned with the engagement that we have with UNHCR.

02:36:47.000 --> 02:36:57.000
AV Team: But, like I mentioned, countries, they do have their own, you know, procedures, protocols, and regulations when it comes to different use cases.

02:36:57.000 --> 02:36:58.000
AV Team: But.

02:36:58.000 --> 02:37:00.000
AV Team: as a country.

02:37:00.000 --> 02:37:09.000
AV Team: with a mandate of, you know, advocating for DPI and, you know, open society. Refugees are a key priority. And, of course, we say.

02:37:09.000 --> 02:37:12.000
AV Team: Id is a human right.

02:37:12.000 --> 02:37:28.000
AV Team: It's not something luxury that we say, okay, put this one in for that one. Because now we're saying service enhanced by and accessed by with what? ID. So ID is a human right. So that's how we see it and that's how we advocate.

02:37:28.000 --> 02:37:35.000
AV Team: or other countries, and we share experiences through that kind of, you know, modalities. Thank you.

02:37:42.000 --> 02:37:49.000
AV Team: Thank you. My question is building on top of another question that was already asked.

02:37:49.000 --> 02:38:01.000
AV Team: And I… my understanding from the two countries is that these are, um, authorities that are somewhat autonomous, but for countries like Malawi, where, uh, you've…

02:38:01.000 --> 02:38:15.000
AV Team: worked in, um, the ID agency is still a government department, and they're aspiring to become, um, semi-autonomous. And then at the same time, looking at revenue generation.

02:38:15.000 --> 02:38:31.000
AV Team: What would you recommend, like the sequenced steps that they can take to achieve both to become an autonomous, or say my autonomous establishment, and also to commercialize, or is it something that can be done concurrently?

02:38:34.000 --> 02:38:39.000
AV Team: Oh, my name is Ntufi Ntaokira from UNDP Malawi. Thank you.

02:38:45.000 --> 02:38:46.000
AV Team: Yes.

02:38:49.000 --> 02:38:59.000
AV Team: Well, yeah, I tried that in Malawi when I was architecting that system.

02:38:59.000 --> 02:39:16.000
AV Team: Government was more interested in opening a treasury account. So the money goes now into the treasury account. But I think there has to be a collaboration with between.

02:39:16.000 --> 02:39:28.000
AV Team: the public representatives, the judiciary, the various departments to go for an autonomous organization. So a case has to be built.

02:39:28.000 --> 02:39:29.000
AV Team: First.

02:39:29.000 --> 02:39:41.000
AV Team: Ujjaval Desai, SB '94, MEng '95: and it's it's a very difficult task, because, you know, when you become an authority, you become an authority for a reason. So nobody wants to.

02:39:41.000 --> 02:39:58.000
AV Team: Give up the control, especially the bureaucracy. You know, the bureaucracy would not let it happen. And that's why I'm saying building the coalition. And the coalition partners could be in judiciary, in government.

02:39:58.000 --> 02:40:08.000
AV Team: And so you have to sell a case to the sitting government that there would be a political capital.

02:40:08.000 --> 02:40:09.000
AV Team: for them.

02:40:09.000 --> 02:40:26.000
AV Team: Because, you know, and you have to sell a case that it would reduce the financial burden for the government. For creating a political capital, you know that how I did was that instead of relying on registration offices.

02:40:27.000 --> 02:40:33.000
AV Team: In Malawi, you know, I reached out to the university and we hired 4,500.

02:40:33.000 --> 02:40:42.000
AV Team: You know, registration, young officers, you know, who were engaged for six months.

02:40:42.000 --> 02:40:44.000
AV Team: And so they learned something.

02:40:44.000 --> 02:40:55.000
AV Team: So it created an environment for the private sector. These young boys and girls who just graduated in computer science, and they joined the team.

02:40:55.000 --> 02:41:03.000
AV Team: So, and second most important point based on my experience is that.

02:41:03.000 --> 02:41:06.000
AV Team: When you architecture a board.

02:41:07.000 --> 02:41:14.000
AV Team: do not only include just commercial organization. It should have participation of government stakeholder.

02:41:14.000 --> 02:41:16.000
AV Team: Uh, banks…

02:41:16.000 --> 02:41:19.000
AV Team: telcos, but most importantly.

02:41:19.000 --> 02:41:25.000
AV Team: Civil organizations, NGOs also.

02:41:25.000 --> 02:41:32.000
AV Team: Who are representing the people's point of view, people first approach.

02:41:32.000 --> 02:41:42.000
AV Team: So then you make the case, and then, uh, you know, it would be heard, uh, that, uh, and… and the banks want to comply.

02:41:42.000 --> 02:41:48.000
AV Team: Otherwise, bank will create their own separate organization.

02:41:48.000 --> 02:41:52.000
AV Team: For this EKYC, it happened in Nigeria.

02:41:52.000 --> 02:42:03.000
AV Team: Right? It is happening in other parts of the world where they are saying, okay, this is just the government department, we will architecture our own organization.

02:42:03.000 --> 02:42:20.000
AV Team: Okay, thank you. And I would like to remind everyone that these systems are public goods. They are not set to make profits. As soon as we see in some of country examples that these systems become for commercial purpose only or primary.

02:42:20.000 --> 02:42:26.000
AV Team: Uh, that leads to a massive exclusion of the population, and then at the end.

02:42:26.000 --> 02:42:43.000
AV Team: no revenues, or very limited revenues, because they don't have much to offer. So, we should not forget that this revenue-generating model, so-called, are purely to sustain the systems as a public good, to provide them, to have the population tap into services.

02:42:43.000 --> 02:42:58.000
AV Team: identify the population so that they have access to services, and so on. We are running out of time. We cannot unfortunately take any more questions. So if you would like to have follow-up questions, and also.

02:43:33.000 --> 02:43:36.000
AV Team: If you have the interest, please come. Thank you.

02:43:36.000 --> 02:43:38.000
AV Team: Thank you.

02:44:05.000 --> 02:44:06.000
AV Team: I don't know.

02:44:12.000 --> 02:44:14.000
AV Team: Did that clear up?

02:44:23.000 --> 02:44:29.000
AV Team: It's very cool. Yeah.

02:44:29.000 --> 02:44:39.000
AV Team: No, no, I'm just submitting, but you know I will.

02:44:39.000 --> 02:44:48.000
AV Team: Yeah, I know that they also.